Tim has a conversation with two clients from Novalex about the second Safety Climate Success Factor "Fresh Eyes." Their fresh perspective may change the way you "see" things. This is episode 2 of 6 in our series discussing Safety Climate Success Factors. Episode 2 of 6 discussing Safety Climate Success Factors.
Host: Tim Page-Bottorff
Guest: Dania Shaban and Ricky Kuvach, Novolex
https://safestart.com/file/idclip/
Tim has a conversation with two clients from Novalex about the second Safety Climate Success Factor "Fresh Eyes." Their fresh perspective may change the way you "see" things. This is episode 2 of 6 in our series discussing Safety Climate Success Factors. Episode 2 of 6 discussing Safety Climate Success Factors.
Host: Tim Page-Bottorff
Guest: Dania Shaban and Ricky Kuvach, Novolex
https://safestart.com/file/idclip/
Hey, welcome back to Safe Talk with Safe Start. I am Tim Page-Bottorff and, if you've been listening the last several weeks, my partner Danny. He's kicked off a series on our latest white paper, which was Success Factors for Improving Safety Climate a Human Factors Management Perspective. That was authored by Safe Start's own Dr Pandora Bryce and our executive advisor, advisor Peter Batrwny. Now both of them joined Danny for an overview and followed that up with a deeper dive into the first Success Factor, which was a no-blame mindset, and so today we're going to continue on with the next Success Factor, and that is having a set of fresh eyes. So today I've invited a few friends from Novalex who have first-hand experience with today's topic Dania Shaban and Ricky Kuwak. Welcome to the podcast.
Dania Shaban:Thanks for the invite, Tim.
Ricky Kovach:It's our pleasure to work with you again, Tim.
Tim Page-Bottorff:I'm so glad to have you guys. Now a little background on Novalex, because it might be a name you might not recognize, but you use their products all the time. Novalex is a leader in packaging innovation, choice and sustainability. They actually manufacture products with paper, plastic and renewable materials for food packaging, for delivery, for carryout food processing and also in the industrial market. Their products benefit millions of customers and consumers who use their products every day and with more than 10,000 employees in about 57 manufacturing facilities in North America and Europe. So full disclosure here, Novalex. They are a SafeL ead and SafeS tart customer and they have also implemented fully SafeL ead processes for supervisors.
Tim Page-Bottorff:Now, in the same way that a no-blame culture mitigates those human factors that relate to hibituation, the fresh-eyes concepts actually mitigate how human brains develop expectations around our environments, almost to the point where it's not unusual for the brain to just delete or maybe even ignore things that are actually factual or present because we're focused on something else. So the classic example of this is the invisible gorilla experiment. If you haven't seen it, look it up. Moonwalking Bear on YouTube. Yeah, spell bear correctly, that's B-E-A-R.
Tim Page-Bottorff:So when, which viewers? When they watch this video, they show this. You know they show this video, and originally it was in front of a group of students that was passing a basketball around and they were asked to count the number of passes a team makes to another. And so, during the video, a person that's actually in a gorilla suit walks right through the game, and many viewers do not see it at all because they're so focused on the assignment of pass counting. So this clever example actually drives home the point that any of us may not see what's right in front of us. And so the YouTube gorilla basketball or even Moonwalking Bear if you're not familiar with it, watch it. And, with that being said, my first question to both of you is did your supervisors see hazards or risks that they previously overlooked, and, if so, could you share an example? Dania, I want you to go first.
Dania Shaban:Yeah, I think as a collective we all miss the things like extension cord running across the floor or something as small as not rewinding some air hoses. And since then we've added, you know, the auto reels for the air hoses. We've dropped extra power supplies to help eliminate the trip hazard caused by the extension cords.
Tim Page-Bottorff:That's a great example. And now the extension cord. You know, if it ran through water, that's an issue, but if so, you've got extension cords that people could trip over. That's a great example. Thank you for that. How about you, Ricky?
Ricky Kovach:Yeah, my example is along the same lines. In a warehouse or manufacturing environment, you have pallets, empty pallets, full pallets all over the place. So what we saw was, you know, empty pallets laying around, trip hazards in places where they didn't belong, propped up. And so, you know, we saw that laying around everywhere. It was the usual thing, but with the safety mindset, we realized that that was a trip hazard. We needed to organize it, collect them, organize them, put them in the right places, and so that was one of the easiest improvements we could have made on the floor.
Tim Page-Bottorff:That's really good. And then. So you caught those things and you saw them, together with some of your own supervisors, and I will point out that and I don't want to get too deep here. But according to neurosciences, we're learning that we do not see things with our own eyes, but with our brains, and what this means is that our eyes are not serving as active video cameras which captures every detail of the world around us. Rather, our pre-conscious brain is constantly sending our eyes on a lookout mission, so they're looking out to check out and verify what our brains predict is actually going on out there. And so, according to those same neurosciences, the means of our eyes and our brains are more likely to see what they expect to see rather than the reality of what's actually going on in the external world.
Tim Page-Bottorff:And so, when finding you palates and air hoses, it might be something that you have just normally going on. And then, with this case, you actually found them, saw them and mitigated them. And so, in addition to seeing hazards, in kind of a new light or fresh eyes, it was actually to bring a human factors perspective to both safety and performance at your facility. So what kind of improvements do you see in regards to fresh eyes on the floor, let's start with you, R icky.
Ricky Kovach:Yeah, so with fresh eyes on the floor, what I saw, what we saw was people had different inputs. I would walk the floor. I would see some things, but other managers or supervisors leads. Walking the floor would identify things that I didn't pick up on and raise the issue. Then we would walk the floor. We could be walking to a meeting, we could be walking to a specific area to build in. We pick up on some things that needs to be addressed and we'll do a huddle, We'll bring up the issue and, with the fresh eyes, someone would see something that I didn't recognize and I go aha, I didn't realize that that was a hazard. Let's address that. And so just having different eyes, fresh eyes on the floor just brought in a lot of different inputs. People saw things differently and it helped us pick up on a lot of things that we wouldn't normally pick up on, Can I?
Tim Page-Bottorff:just quote you here. I'm going to paraphrase a little bit. Ricky, Did you just say that more eyes are better than two?
Ricky Kovach:Correct. I see what you're saying.
Tim Page-Bottorff:Oh, thank you for that. That was great. It's a jokester too Perfect. Thank you for the input. So having more people looking as opposed to having just one person looking does generate a fresh new light or a fresh set of eyes. So thank you for that input, Dania, how about you?
Dania Shaban:Yeah, just to echo that same message, we've done Gimba walks with people from different departments, so someone from shipping comes over to production, since it is a different environment, in a sense, than what they are used to in their day to day. They could find things more than the person that's been there that works in that area, and it could be the same issues that they raise, and then that's great as well, because then it just means that this is something that sticks out to everyone. So then it should be, you know, taking care of as soon as possible, just like the rest of the items that get pointed out.
Tim Page-Bottorff:So you've invited supervisors and employees from other departments to look at, say, R icky's department and then, Ricky, you would supply employees or supervisors to go look at another department, right?
Dania Shaban:Okay.
Tim Page-Bottorff:That's.
Tim Page-Bottorff:That's interesting because it kind of helps break the pattern of corporate complacency.
Tim Page-Bottorff:Or, in other words, you've got a group of people that work together and they may not see what's going on in their area, but if somebody else came in they might be able to see with their fresh eyes. That's interesting. I really appreciate that and, as a matter of fact, it kind of leads us to this next point. So when we consider how this function of the brain could affect people's safety, there's all the more reason to find ways to look at hazards and risks with a fresh set of eyes, or at least a different lens, and in particular the lens that we mentioned in human factors. So when organizations they're actually direct, intentional and purposeful in bringing fresh eyes and a human factors perspective into their systems, processes and even personal interactions, it's possible to shift the organizational safety climate, both improving safety and performance. So, Dania, how would you rate the overall culture at your site? See it from a scale from one to ten, one being really terrible and ten being Excellent before and after SafeL ead. So two numbers.
Dania Shaban:Think, before SafeL ead I would say we were closer to a four. You know safety was on everybody's radar but it, you know, would slip through the cracks. And I think we're moving After a SafeL ead, we're moving on our way up to closer to an eight, with the constant reminders and the constant walks. And we've implemented a couple of programs, like a good catch safety program. And you know we're really pushing that for employees to Acknowledge other, their peers, really and truly. So it's not just managers pointing things out, it's not just supervisors, it's the employees on the floor recognizing each other. Whether it be ah a this could be a potential safety to this person is doing a good job and here is why and they prevented Incident or accident.
Tim Page-Bottorff:The good catch program that you have implemented. I remember also being there because you gave me a couple coins, which I appreciate. He's doing the is that part of it, the coins to get food and beverages.
Dania Shaban:Yeah. So we have the coins to get you know something from the vending machine. And then we one of our customers is Chick-fil-A and they Chick-fil-A freebie have cards. So we've kind of incorporated that a little bit.
Tim Page-Bottorff:Wait, are you telling me you make the Chick-fil-A bags? My goodness, those are an anomaly. Themselves are just so superior. I keep that. They keep that sandwich super warm. That's perfect. Ricky, would you rank the same? I mean, you're in the warehouse and you've got incredible optics, so what goes out on the floor, what would? What would your be? What would be your ranking here?
Ricky Kovach:I would say, you know, before, SafeLead, that I'd give us a five, and then and then after, SafeLead, that would I would give us a nine and I know that's pretty high, but but seeing where we've, where we were and what, where we are now, you know it was a big help with SafeLead coming in and basically helping us understand how we were gonna you know attack, safety, hazards, making sure we're safer. You know there's a big push by management to be safe, but but then, you know, SafeLead came in and gave us that blueprint on how to do things. You know internal factors, human factors. You know communication, documentation, making sure that. You know you, you have that, that connection.
Ricky Kovach:What I saw after SafeL ead was better housekeeping, more organization on the floor. You know we had extra awareness. So you know we raised the level and it not just helped us with safety but it also helped us in other areas, other phases of the, the cycle, the production. So it, you know I would say a nine, because I think we all feel more safe on the floor.
Tim Page-Bottorff:Thank you for the answers and the numbers as they relate. I sometimes you look at this stuff when you're teaching and you get numbers back on a survey. Do they mean a lot to a lot of people? And I'm not gonna suggest that they do, but let me encourage this you both saw the same amount of improvement, whether it was a four or five, but you moved up to an eight or nine and we often wonder could we make it up to a ten? And the things that you mentioned both of you you know seeing improvement, and not just necessarily at safety.
Tim Page-Bottorff:You talked about housekeeping. You talked about the way you stack things. I remember we had very direct conversations on how we were gonna stack things from now on, and some places you can see, in some places you couldn't. And so, Ricky, let me come back to you. We talk a lot about you know how that language is supposed to come across, so you, in the importance of common safety language, using the same language over and over again. Let's talk about improvements in communication and more efficient relationships. Have you actually seen improvement in communication as it relates to building better relationships?
Ricky Kovach:Yeah, sure have. Just from the focus on internal factors checking on your employees, making sure that they're okay and once their mindset we talked about this in class checking the temperature, making sure that they're prepared and ready to work there's things that happen outside the company, in their personal lives, and they come to work and they want to do a good job, but they may not have slept good the night before, they may not be feeling well. And so for me, as a warehouse manager, I have my employees operating heavy equipment. I want to make sure that they're in the right frame of mind when they're using the equipment on the floor, for everybody's safety, not just theirs. And so having these conversations hey, how are you doing, how do you feel, is everything okay Asking these personal questions, and we genuinely care about them as an individual. But we also want to make sure that they're safe. We don't want them to take any chances on the floor. They may say, okay, well, I'll take a chance on the floor.
Ricky Kovach:For instance, I had a worker very tired, very tired, working two jobs, and so he's rushing on a truck and I pull him to the side and say, hey, take your time. I can tell you're a little tired. You're not yourself today. Just take your time. We don't have to get this truck out right this minute. Take your time. Everything is okay and I can see how his shoulders slouch down a little bit. He was so pressed and then I spoke to him, checked on him and made sure he was okay, told him just to take his time and his approach. Now I could tell he was, he felt better about what he was doing and I think just those little things it reconnected on a personal level. But also I know now that he understands. Okay, let's just be safe, let's pay attention to detail and let's just be safe on the floor. So yeah, I have seen a better communication here, for sure.
Tim Page-Bottorff:Just literally what you've said there. Just starting a relationship conversation like how are you feeling today, Are you okay? It's not typically what most organizations end up doing. They just go straight for command and control, do your job and go home, and having a conversation like that can't open the door for somebody, especially if it's common.
Ricky Kovach:Right, and to that point I think he would feel safer to tell me hey, R ick, I'm not feeling well, I don't think I should be doing this right now, and that's a big deal.
Tim Page-Bottorff:It is, and you made that possible just by asking. I just thank you for that. Dania, do you feel the same about better communication here too?
Dania Shaban:Oh, definitely. I mean communication is a key aspect in any kind of industry. Right, building relationships kind of what Ricky was saying with your people. You build that commonality with them, you become more relatable where they can feel comfortable to come approach you about something.
Dania Shaban:One of the supervisors that was in your class while you were here has I've seen a difference in him.
Dania Shaban:He's brought up a situation where he had an operator and he mentioned that their production hasn't been the same as he's used to. It's kind of dropped a little bit. So he was asking if myself and the HR manager here could kind of check on them. Just he didn't want to put that person in an awkward position. So he asked if we could help with that conversation and we did and come to find out this person was training for an event outside of work, so they were doing extra exercises, all these things. So they had their personal stuff happening outside. But he picked up on that information without pushing too much. But that conversation ended really well and she appreciated that he took the time out of his day to come bring it up and for that conversation to happen, which ultimately is what you want. You want the supervisor to employ your relationship, to feel like they are cared about and are cared for, because ultimately, that's what good production is gonna lead to.
Tim Page-Bottorff:You guys. That was an incredible conversation. I would actually spend a lot more time with you guys if I could. You both were phenomenal. We're just about out of time and I wanna thank you both for sharing your wisdom and experience with our listeners today.
Dania Shaban:Oh, definitely it's been a pleasure.
Ricky Kovach:Hey, ditto man, Thanks for having us.
Tim Page-Bottorff:Yeah, you bet you guys. I'll tell you a couple of things for both of you. I already told you this before, but I'll tell our listeners. I was in Chicago doing a public workshop and they were serving popcorn in these white bags and whatever it was.
Tim Page-Bottorff:I remember going to Novolex in Katie, Texas, and hanging out with Ricky Ricky, by the way, is the warehouse manager in Dania, is the operations manager of the facility and I immediately didn't care about the contents of the bag. I looked at the bottom of the bag to see where the label was from, took a picture of it and I sent it off to Dania and I said, hey, your bag is in Chicago and I for some reason felt proud of that bag myself and working with these two, they're incredible supervisors. It gave me a sense of overwhelming pride of the work that they've done, the improvement that they performed, and a lot of it was just through that fresh set of eyes and going through SafeL ead. It made me feel like I was a part of their team. So you both thank you for giving me that feeling.
Tim Page-Bottorff:And also I will say that there's not a lot of data to capture behind a feeling, and so when you have a supervisor going out there and communicating and a supervisor going out there and finding things. Sometimes you just don't have data to back that up, but when you have a supervisor coming in and telling you Ricky and Dania, I feel good about today because I've gotten people to talk to me. Sometimes just asking is where it all begins. So it's been a real treat catching up with both of you and thank you all to all of you, our listeners, for sharing part of your day with us, the three of us here and, as always, feel free to share this or any episode, and until our paths cross again I'm Tim Page-Bottorff for SafeT alk with SafeS tart, I'll see you down the road.