Have you ever faced a task that spiraled into a series of errors, leaving you to wonder where things went wrong? This episode peels back the layers of our subconscious mind's role in safety and how frustration and unmet expectations can lead to critical mistakes.
Host: Danny Smith
Guest: Keith Ausborne
Have you ever faced a task that spiraled into a series of errors, leaving you to wonder where things went wrong? This episode peels back the layers of our subconscious mind's role in safety and how frustration and unmet expectations can lead to critical mistakes.
Host: Danny Smith
Guest: Keith Ausborne
Welcome back to Safe Talk with Safestart. I'm Danny Smith and today we continue our story series, and joining us is our great friend and fellow consultant, Keith Ausborne. So, Keith, first of all, welcome back to the podcast.
Keith Ausborne:Thank you so much, Danny, for having me back. I've been playing along with the series at home and I know it is laying down some of those critical neural pathways there.
Danny Smith:Not to get too far into the weeds in the neuroscience, but you know what happens in the subconscious mind there in terms of the stories is really. Our subconscious mind has seen the states and the state to error risk pattern that we talk about so many times, and so many times we see those things happen and there's no longer any consequences that happen, so we just don't recognize the danger. That's there, right.
Keith Ausborne:You know, Danny, it's funny picking up on that thought. The point of Safe Start stories is really reprogramming the subconscious mind to recognize the pattern as increasing risk in the moment, like the conscious mind does, right? Unfortunately, that's not where in the moment decisions are made Exactly.
Danny Smith:And, you know, the subconscious mind really can't distinguish between real or vicarious events, which is, you know, a part of the point of this series. It really helps us to sharpen our subconscious minds to be, you know, looking and thinking for that increased danger Again, even in the subconscious realm, so that it just happens automatically. And that way, when that state to error pattern occurs, well then, in those CERTs, the critical error reduction techniques jump in. So, Keith, before I turn the mic over to you, I'd like to remind our listeners of how to use these stories series podcast. As always, our guest will share a story and then you'll be instructed just to pause the podcast for a moment and then you can discuss with your group the state to error pattern, the search that could have prevented it from happening, and also how the things could have been worse there. After that, we'll resume the podcast, you can hit play again and Keith and I'll come back and we'll see how you've done so, Keith, with that being said, the floor is yours. Take it away.
Keith Ausborne:All right, thanks so much, Danny. This actually happened when Leona and I bought our first home. We got married about eight years ago, and one of the first things that we wanted to do, of course, was buy a house together, and as we were looking for our first house, of course, Leona had a checklist of the things that she wanted. Right, as the wife, and me as the husband, I had a checklist of things that I wanted as well. As it turns out, though, you know, everything on her list got checked off not so much for me, but of course, there's neither here nor there. One of the things that I wanted in the home was an outdoor kitchen. You know, I'm a Texan, so, Danny, of course, I want to be able to do some barbecue.
Keith Ausborne:Right, it did not exist in that first home, which means that we needed to build it out, and I talked to a few companies to get this done, got several quotes, but never did I feel the warm and fuzzies that I needed to feel to pull the trigger, and, after speaking with a buddy of mine, he suggested a company that he had done some work with in the past, and they came pretty highly recommended, and so, you know, I called him over to come out and discuss the project with me, and as we were doing the walk around, I began to feel really, really comfortable with the level of organization that he had. He gave me some ideas that I had not considered. I asked him to send me a quote, and, as he did so, his quote came in not the most expensive, and it also wasn't the cheapest. It was right in that sweet spot of what I was willing to spend. And to top it off, then he included a 3D mockup and I have to be honest with you, I was really impressed with what he was. You know what he was laying down, if you will.
Keith Ausborne:I asked him how long would the project itself take, and he told me it would be about three to four weeks tops to get it done. And it was beginning of spring and I was pretty busy at that time of the year, which meant that I would be in and out of town quite a bit. And I felt that you know, after talking with Leona, that they are they were the company that we would allow to do this. So we signed a contract with them. Well, about three or four months into this job, they still hadn't finished and I'm working, which means that Leona is taking the lead on this project from my side and as she's getting increasingly more and more upset, not just by the day, but also by the minute. Danny, you know what they say.
Danny Smith:Absolutely. Happy wife, happy life, the inverse is true, right, absolutely.
Keith Ausborne:Absolutely. So. She's given it to me, of course, which means, in turn, I have to give it to them because it all rolls downhill. Well, finally, they finished this project around mid-summer and I'm going to be at home for a few weeks and I wanted to be able to enjoy the patio, and I knew it was going to rain on the day that I was sitting out there, but of course, I have the new cover, so I felt pretty good about, you know, being able to do just that.
Keith Ausborne:Well, the rain comes in, and it is raining a bit harder than what I had anticipated, and what begins to happen is that, between the cover and my home, a leak begins to take place, and I don't mean a drip, drip kind of leak, Danny. This is a very substantial leak. I take a video of what's happening with my phone, I send it to the guy and, of course, he was shocked. Yeah right. Anyway, he and his crew come over the next day and they're on my roof for about 30 minutes. They come down, they say that the leak is fixed and that this situation shouldn't happen again. Well, of course, the next day it rains again and the exact same thing happens. Danny, as you can imagine I am absolutely furious. Right, I call another contractor to come over just to take a look at it. I don't even tell him about the leak situation.
Keith Ausborne:Well, when he comes to my home, he has a 20 foot extension ladder on the back of his truck. I already have an 8 foot step ladder set up in my backyard ready for him to use. Right, because I'm going to hold the ladder as he goes up. Now, keep in mind that this cover is 15 feet off the ground. Right, I hold the ladder for the guy. He goes up and he is literally on top of my roof for maybe 15, 20 seconds and he yells down to me hey, did you know that there's no flashing up here on the roof? When he said that to me, then in my head explodes. I grab myself on, you know, so I can take pictures of what is not on the top of my roof.
Keith Ausborne:I hustle up the ladder and as I'm about to pull myself up, the ladder falls from underneath me. Danny, I am dangling 15 feet off the ground with nothing to brace myself against. Keep in mind it is mid-summer in Dallas, texas, and the roof is shingled. Now understand that the shingles are not just extremely hot, but they are also very coarse and they're beginning to cut into my arms. The contractor runs over and he's trying to pull me up and that's not work. Well, finally, I say to him listen, what I'm going to do is hold on, using my hands, I'm going to locate the ladder beneath me and I'm going to make an adjustment from there. So what I do is I locate the ladder. It is right underneath me, right. I swing in, swing out, come down to the ground. Nothing happens.
Danny Smith:That could certainly have been worse, which is one of the things we'd like for our folks to think about, right? So we're going to pause the podcast here, uh, and before you do that, just a reminder would like for you to think about the states and the errors that were involved. Consider the CERTs, uh, the critical error reduction techniques. How could this have been either prevented in the first place, or how could you prevent making a similar mistake in the future? And then, uh, as we were just talking about, I think about, well, how could that have been worse? Uh, and while you're at it, don't forget about the contractor as well. There have been some states and errors going on there as well. And then Keith and I will be here when you're done, so go ahead and pause the recording and we'll join you in just a moment. All right? So, Keith, uh, let's go back and kind of review this uh story real quickly. So, first of all, just in terms of states and errors, uh, how'd you really see that?
Keith Ausborne:So clearly, as you can imagine, I was very frustrated with the contractor right, and certainly, I was complacent doing something that I had done many times before.
Danny Smith:Sure, um, yeah, I get that, uh, particularly anything else, with a complacency that just kind of jumps out at you.
Keith Ausborne:Well, it's not like I use ladders every single day, but it's so. You would think that my level of awareness would be high in a situation. It's like I tell my classes you don't have to do something over and over to be complacent, right? It could be something as simple as letting your guard down in the moment. Uh, it usually comes paired with another state, in this case frustration. So if, if you know how a single state can increase risk, imagine the the multiple effect in the state combination.
Danny Smith:All right, so a bit of complacency, a bit of frustration there. What, what errors would you say there?
Keith Ausborne:Right, right. So the errors I would suggest are probably eyes and mind, not on tasks, and I was not considerate of the fact that I could lose my balance, traction or grip.
Danny Smith:Sure, sure, maybe even been on fire with the ladder there.
Keith Ausborne:Oh yeah, absolutely.
Danny Smith:If you said you were looking for it right, right. So yeah, right. What about the CERTs? What could have been done differently here? Uh, either to prevent this or to keep it from happening again.
Keith Ausborne:Well, I know I could have certainly self triggered on the frustration, right, and as we know that complacency is not something that we can self trigger on, what I would need to do is build in a new habit, right, if I'm not using the proper tool for the job, right? Remember, I stated he pulled up in my driveway and he had a 20 foot extension ladder on the back of his truck. Hmm, so maybe, uh, building in that that habit of using the right tool would have been help.
Danny Smith:Yeah, it sounds like the contractor may have had some states going on with him as well. Right, right.
Keith Ausborne:A bit of complacency himself, right? I mean, the sad part is that, you know, because he did have that 20 foot extension ladder on the back of his truck, I had my ladder set up already because it's the one that I had, so while it was just an eight foot step ladder, um, look, I know enough about ladder safety. I'm not trying to throw shade at the guy, but you know he's living proof, right, he's a pro. So you know you try to lean on the pros to some degree, but at the same time you know he's probably thinking you know, like man, he's dang rookie. I got a ladder on the back of my truck, but you know what can you say?
Danny Smith:You know it's funny with that too because I can imagine you know you didn't exactly say what time of day this was, but you know, if you think about it, maybe, maybe the guys already had a few ladder sets, shall we say, at the end of the day and I've been there before loading, unloading a ladder off the truck, having to tie it back down every time- hey customers already got a ladder set up.
Danny Smith:I can make this work, even though you probably looked at it up. Yeah, a little sketch, but that's okay. Uh, we can make this work right. Like you said, maybe a little complacency, maybe a little rushing there as well. I can see that, uh, and just thinking, hey, this saves me a trip back to the truck. You know the signs of rushing Sure, so let's, let's talk about this in terms of of. You know, how could it be worse? First of all, I don't think we've really talked about that yet.
Keith Ausborne:Right, right. So fortunately, everything ended up being okay, but I have to give you some additional information, then, right? So one of the things that took place after that situation is that I needed to go in the house and clean myself up, right? The thing about it is that I didn't want to share what had happened with my wife, Leona. I walk into the house and I'm looking around and I don't see her anywhere. I moved toward my bedroom and I realized that she's in the bathroom Right In the moment. I did what husbands do. I panicked. I could have gone to a different bathroom in my house, but of course, that's not what I do. Then I walked right past her into the closet and of course, she peeks into the closet and asks me what happened and I say, oh, funny story. That's how I began it, right, and I share with her what happened, and I'm thinking she's going to find it funny, but she didn't find it funny at all.
Keith Ausborne:Leona looks at me and she begins to kind of tear up and she says what happens to me? If you fall off the roof, you break your neck, you break your back or you've been killed in that situation. And when she said it to me, Danny. It was the first time I had given that any thought whatsoever. Right, here I am, I'm the SafeS tart guy, but in the moment I hadn't given that any thought at all. She was absolutely right. Right when you think about how it could have been worse. Everything that she said is exactly how it could have been worse, something I failed to mention. When I went up that ladder, I had on shorts and flip flops.
Danny Smith:Oh, it kind of goes back to the right tool for the job again, right, this time in terms of footwear. Yeah, exactly, I got you.
Keith Ausborne:But I had no intention of going up that ladder in the first place.
Danny Smith:Wow, you were just the spotter Right. Yeah, makes sense. Well, very fortunate that you were not severely injured. As your wife pointed out, there could definitely have been a bad situation, for sure, absolutely, and just glad everything worked out okay and hopefully, as you said, using these tools in the future, these critical error reduction techniques in the future can help prevent something like this from happening again. So thanks so much for joining us today, Keith. Great story as always. Always enjoy hearing from you and I just really appreciate you joining us here today.
Keith Ausborne:Danny, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it and I look forward to the next time.
Danny Smith:Sounds great. So, on behalf of Keith and the whole team here at Safe Talk with Safe Start, I'm Danny Smith. Thanks so much for listening and have a great day.