S12Ep16: SWA Does Your Company Have the Right Stuff?

Does your company have the essential elements of an effective Stop Work Authority (SWA)? Learn valuable insights on building a supportive safety culture where every team member feels confident exercising their SWA rights and responsibilities.

Host: Danny Smith
Guest: Pete Batrowny

Transcript

Speaker Names

Danny Smith Host

00:05

Welcome back to SafeTalk with SafeStart. I'm Danny Smith and today's topic is Stop Work Authority, and our guest today is Peter Batrowny. Peter is a member of our SafeStart consulting team. He's an environmental, health and safety and physical security executive with a progressive career history and a track record of success really on a global scale. Pete's also a US Army veteran. Thank you very much for your service, sir, and Pete partners with senior leaderships, especially to determine their forward action steps and just help define their goals as they're moving forward, not only with SafeStart, but with just safety in general. Pete's also fluent in Spanish. Boy, I wish I was. Sometimes I don't even feel like I'm fluent in English, Pete, so that's kind of the way I feel sometimes. So anyway, welcome back to the podcast, Pete. 

Pete Batrowny Guest

00:59

Thank you, Danny, and yeah, the thing about speaking Spanish is sometimes I forget both languages. So I'm very, very aware of that mental phenomenon. And thanks for inviting me on to the podcast today. And, as you mentioned, we're going to be talking about a subject, topic that's really near and dear to my heart. It seems really simple on the surface, but it's really nuanced and, as we know, if we're working with people, things can get a little bit messy. So hopefully today we'll give some folks some idea of some things that they can think about to help make their stop work authority or their intervention program a little bit more successful and keep it on that PDCA cycle, continuous improvement cycle. So thanks again for inviting me, Danny. I really appreciate it. 

Danny Smith Host

01:44

Great, and you know, and a lot of folks are probably familiar with the concept of stop work authority, but I think some people struggle with this a bit, not only organizationally, but also individually. So why don't we start there, Pete let's talk about perhaps some of the elements that would be involved for an organization that needs to make sure that their stop work authority is really just going to work well. 

Pete Batrowny Guest

02:14

So you know, what I'd like to talk about today is. You know the concept of people intervening when they think that something isn't quite right. You know, at the essence, that's what stop work authority is, and I like to look at it through the lens of the SafeStart’s Human Factors Framework. I found this especially valuable what the organization support that and reinforce the stop work authority and how leaders can support it as well. Right Leaders have a key role in that, I believe. And then, ultimately, you know, if we think about it in its essence, stop work authority is an individual skill, but, as with all individual skills, there's some barriers and some things that we need to do to really optimize that. So that's kind of how I'd like to frame our conversation today. 

Danny Smith Host

03:00

Very good, and you know, Pete, I know you personally, we've spent some time together, obviously, you know at our various meetings and just you know working together professionally through SafeStart. But for the benefit of our listeners, let's take a step back real quickly to start with, and tell the listeners why you're so passionate about this idea of stop work authority. 

Pete Batrowny Guest

03:23

You know, as you know and we've had conversations about this in the past that when I first started in the EHS and specifically in the safety arena, I had a lot of experience investigating fatal injuries, serious injuries, potential serious injuries, and throughout that process I started to notice some themes recurring.

03:47

You know that one was that when something bad happened to someone, they're rarely working alone. And then the other theme that I saw that was very consistent with a lot of the organizations that I work with is that they had some sort of stop work authority in place. It was either a safety tenet, a safety belief, or some type of affirmation from an executive leader. Now, so then I began to look actively for some of the reasons why stop work authority wasn't being used as effectively as it could be, and I also began to notice that stop work authority you know not only an effective concept for preventing those SIFs, stop work authority you know not only an effective concept for preventing those SIFs, but those conversations related to stop work authority can also be useful in changing a lot of different aspects of a company's safety climate and ultimately change their safety culture. 

Danny Smith Host

04:37

That makes a lot of sense. So, first of all, let's I guess I've said first of all a couple of times here, so I guess first of all is maybe not applicable here, but how about this? I told you I wasn't always fluid in English right, let's talk about stop work authority and perhaps let's start with leadership, because, as many have said, organizations rise and fall on leadership, right. So talk about leadership, setting the right climate to start with as it relates to stop work authority. 

Pete Batrowny Guest

05:06

The way I kind of think about this is, if you think about an organizational maturity model there are a lot of them out there and a lot of them are very, very useful and one kind of common aspect of that is that the very mature business with a really mature safety climate or safety culture has a way for people to look out for one another. You know, has that, you know, brother's keeper kind of mentality, and they do it in a non-confrontational way. So it's really an expectation of leaders in the organization, you know, to have this ingrained at a peer-to-peer level. Right Leaders are expected to do it almost. You know to have this ingrained at a peer-to-peer level. Right, leaders are expected to do it almost you know, part of their job description. But when you can do it peer-to-peer and you can do it in a non-confrontational way, that's when businesses are well on their way to a very mature safety culture and really, you know, get into that higher level of safety performance as well. 

Danny Smith Host

06:04

Absolutely, and it's not only the peer-to-peer, but also I've seen where, and I'm sure you have, where it's also the employee feeling comfortable saying something to the supervisor. Right, exactly, yeah, and maybe a good example would be really helpful here. If you've got something here. 

Pete Batrowny Guest

06:21

Okay. So you know the way I started thinking about this, Danny, is I, you know, when I had that revelation about how valuable, safe or stop work authority could be, is I went to an organization to do some leadership training, leadership coaching, and one of the first things that I saw on the atrium of the business was a plaque, you know, it was a poster and it was signed by the CEO of the company and it had that tenant of Stop Work Authority, you know. So I thought, oh, this is, you know, probably pretty, pretty mature organization. But then, as I started talking to the leadership and getting into those conversations, I found out that they had recently had a very, very serious incident and there were two people present, you know and to your point, Danny. One of them was a supervisor, one of them was a trainer or trainee and he didn't use that stop work authority, didn't feel comfortable using it. 

07:20

So, you know, that's what really got me kind of thinking about, you know, what are the impediments to people using stop work authority, how can we think about this, because I really believe that it can be a very powerful tool and how do we get beyond that you know the words on the sign on the wall and get it to be something that's ingrained in our culture, ingrained in the way we talk to each other on a day-to-day basis and do it in a you know, in a way that we're really looking out for each other, not trying, not a gotcha exercise. It's really I'm looking out for you because I care for you. Right, and as I visited other sites and reflected on my past experiences when I was in operation, et cetera, found out that wasn't an isolated case, that we see this over and over again. Maybe the reasons why it's not as effective may vary a little bit, but also found a lot of commonalities there that businesses could think about if they really want to optimize that element of their safety culture. 

Danny Smith Host

08:17

And Stop Work Authority really is, in order for it to work effectively. It's really a thought process that requires well, as we were saying, everybody's input is not just a top-down or a bottom-up type thing. This has to be across all levels of the organization, right? 

Pete Batrowny Guest

08:35

Exactly. And you know, what I found helpful is to think about this in in two kind of different but related ways. So first you know the phases of a stop work authority, if you think about it, you know it's self-triggering, or you know identifying and actually the act of uh, pausing the work, right, that's kind of the first step, and having the skills to be able to do that in a healthy way is important. And then there's kind of the first step and having the skills to be able to do that in a healthy way is important. And then there's kind of the planning process and then getting back to work process and then the other way. 

09:06

You know, the other kind of lens that I look at is that we talked about before. It's that human factors framework that we talk a lot about. What's the organization's responsibility? Where are the opportunities in the organization? What's the leader's responsibility? What are the opportunities in the organization? What's the leader's responsibility, what are the opportunities there? And then the same for the individuals, right, whether they're self-triggering on something they're doing or observe something that they want to, you know kind of do that intervention on. You know what skills, what impediments are there and how can we work with those to continuously improve that process. 

Danny Smith Host

09:42

Yeah, you just said a lot of great stuff there. It's probably a lot to unpack, so let's back up just a touch and start with, first of all, just the individual and talk to us about the individual and what they can do there, their individual actions and talk to us about the individual and what they can do there, their individual actions. 

Pete Batrowny Guest

10:04

Most organizations look to that individual and their actions when they assess a concept like this, whether it's a BBS system or stop work authority, they really kind of focus on the individual.

10:13

But just telling someone the importance of a concept like that, it's really not enough.

10:21

Right, from an individual's point of view, there are some potential reasons why stop work authority is not invoked. 

10:27

You know there could be a lack of confidence on the part of the individual, maybe something doesn't really look right but you know I'm not really 100% certain so I'm not going to say anything about it or there might be a fear of confrontation and this is very real, you know, especially if you may have intervened at one point and got a you know, less than pleasurable reaction from somebody, you're less likely to do that in the future, right? So you got to work on those soft skills to be able to do that in a healthy way, right. And then, as you mentioned earlier, it's you know he's the boss, I can't say anything to him. Right? And you know the belief that stop if I stop work. You know, whether we like to believe it or not, there's still some organizations out there that favor production over safety and that individual just might feel that if I stop the work, you know it might interfere with production, so maybe I better not better not say anything at this point. 

Danny Smith Host

11:21

Right, there's others examples, but those are the ones that I see most common you know, I find it interesting to talking about the idea of the, that belief that if I stop work I may slow down production. And it's some organizations, as you said. It is that production at all cost mentality and we've all seen that, unfortunately. But there also is that we talk about the human factors being both positive and negative, and there is just that drive to want to do a good job, to want to achieve good results, to foster good production numbers, if you will. So that drives a lot of people as well. So there certainly are obstacles on the individual side. Let's talk a little bit about the organization and what leaders can do there to help the individuals overcome these obstacles. 

Pete Batrowny Guest

12:14

Okay. So if we think about the leader's responsibility or from his point of view and the stop work authority is a valued tool it's really up to the leaders to provide the coaching. You know, be on the lookout for individual hurdles like the ones that we just talked about. And leaders also have to be deliberate about this right. It's not, you know, thinking about it from time to time. They have to be really deliberate about their actions related to it, talking about it when they have the opportunity, like in pre-job briefings. So you make it a proactive thing right, and it's a lot easier to identify those hurdles after an incident happens and it really takes active, deliberate leadership to make it proactive. And I think that's where a leader can improve his personal skills by making it a more proactive event rather than talking about it after someone almost got hurt or hopefully not if someone did get hurt. So discussing stop work authority during toolbox talks, safety meetings that's going to help. And also having the two-way conversations right. That's where you're going to uncover where people you know might be hesitant to use stop work authority and you can provide that healthy coaching to make them comfortable doing that, whether it's a technical skill or a soft skill that you need to build in those folks. Having those conversations allows you to identify those and then you can work on it. 

13:43

And then you know talking about recent near misses and incidents where stop work authority may have been helpful, it is also a good way to think about that and understand. You know if it was used, you know how was it beneficial, and if it wasn't used, what can we do to make sure that that individual feels comfortable doing it next time, right? And then you know. The last thing from a leadership standpoint should really be on the lookout. You're talking about the positive and negative aspects of human factors. When we see somebody using stop work authority in an appropriate way, we've got to kind of be on the lookout for that and recognize that in real time, right, but compliment that person, give them that specific feedback on using that, and it could be done in a non-confrontational way. It takes practice on the part of the leader, it takes some skill building on the parts of the leader, but the benefits I think are exponential if you work on work on those skills. 

Danny Smith Host

14:43

Yeah, you know, and just making a person feel comfortable, hitting the big red button, as we often refer to it, with the stop work authority, right, just, you know, let them know it's okay. You know, if you we don't want you to get the numbers, if you're not safe, you know we want you to stop. And for some folks that's a that's a tough mentality to get. And supervisors reinforcing that is huge, right. So finally, I guess, as we're starting to wrap this up a bit, how can an organization support, I would say, both the individual worker but also the individual leader, the individual frontline supervisor, just to make sure that safe work authority is really being successful and that it is a successful tool in their organization?

Pete Batrowny Guest

15:35

Now this might seem really obvious, Danny, but I think the first thing an organization should consider is how they market the concept. 

15:42

Now, the term stop work authority, we're all familiar with it, but to some folks it might have a negative connotation, right. 

15:49

Especially in an organization like the ones we talked about just you know before, where production might be slightly favored over safety. Right, that stop work authority may have a negative connotation. So the way that it's marketed, the way that it's talked about by the organization and even the name of the program could be very, very important, right. So we all know that leaders often say that safety is number one, but too often in reality is different, especially when we're getting near the end of the month, near the end of the quarter and our production quotas are tight, right, people kind of shift their priorities, if you will, and if safety is a priority versus a value, that's where we might see that conflict, right. And I also advise organizations to brand stop work authority in a way that takes the focus away from the stop work and more on looking out for each other, having a process that and if it's done right you're actually going to benefit both quality and production. 

Danny Smith Host

16:44

That's more than just semantics. Right. 

Pete Batrowny Guest

16:49

Exactly Stop working on something that's affecting quality, stop working on something that's affecting productivity. But once you develop those skills and develop that you know eye to be looking out for those types of things, it's going to benefit an organization. Sure, everybody has the right and the obligation to intervene when they observe something unsafe. That's not enough, right, you got to put processes in place to facilitate those interactions, especially if the program is new. And some things that I've seen that work very effectively are like a red card, yellow card and green card system. Right, that way person doesn't have to you know, kind of think about what are those first words. I'm going to say how I'm going to get into this. You know, potentially confrontational conversation you can use the cards and that can turn out to be a non-confrontational way to begin the conversation. Right, seeing that work very, very well. 

17:46

And then keeping the stop work authority in the PDCA cycle. I've seen some organizations do this very well to bring it out. Get the employee engagement, employee input into how to make the system better. You know, just like we do with the other elements of our safety management system, that could be huge right. Getting the folks that are actually going to benefit the most by using Stop Work Authority involved in the process from an organizational standpoint, going to have huge, huge payback. And then another thing organizations can consider is how stop work authority is integrated into other programs. You know, like some of the ones we mentioned, and also like incident management right, incident investigation and their accountability and disciplinary programs. Right is this you know something that should actually be rewarded and you know having that clearly stated in the accountability program could be a huge benefit to a stop work authority program. This is going to make everybody's understanding and approach to stop work authority consistent and be in line with the organizational values. 

Danny Smith Host

18:54

So you almost want to make it where it is an expectation that people will do that then, and not just as you said, not just a plaque on the wall type deal right? 

Pete Batrowny Guest

19:03

It's an obligation. It's not just a right, it's an obligation. 

Danny Smith Host

19:07

Exactly. I like the way you put that. Really fascinating thoughts altogether, Pete. Unfortunately we're getting close on time here. Any closing tips that you'd like to just pass along for our listeners? 

Pete Batrowny Guest

19:22

Regarding stop work authority. For each other it's an individual skill and, like all other individual skills, as you and I are, you know, very, very aware, it takes practice to develop that in the habit strength. So you're doing it automatically, right, and doing it in a way that's going to be non-componential Supervisors and managers. They need to develop those specific technical and soft skills so that they can, you know, lead the use of the stop work authority deliberately and proactively. And then organizations need to ensure that they provide the environment support for stop work authority so that it's a useful tool to help prevent injuries. 

Danny Smith Host

20:05

Yeah, I think that's a great way to wrap this subject. Thanks for sharing your expertise and your experience with us regarding this Pete. If somebody wants to reach out to you directly for a specific question, perhaps about their culture, their stop work authority or implementing a stop work authority, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you? 

Pete Batrowny Guest

20:28

Best way is via email, Danny. My email address is peterba at safestart.com and I welcome all comments, questions, because this is a never-evolving topic. I like to learn about it as much as I like to share my experiences, so anyone that has any recommendations I'd love to hear them. So one more time, it's peterba at safestart.com. 

Danny Smith Host

20:55

Very good. Thanks again for being with us, Pete. Always good to catch up with you and for our listeners, remember to not only listen to the podcast on a regular basis, but also continue to share these with other folks in your organization. For Safe Talk with Safe Start. Thanks again for listening everyone. I'm Danny Smith and we'll talk to you again soon, thank you.